Comments

For those fans saying that we either keep Lobo or hire an OC to run a pistol offense, that’s ridiculous. No one here is saying we need to run a 5 wide-out receiver set in order to entertain the fans and be successful. We’ll never have more than 2 or 3 quality receivers anyway, and that’s OK. We all know our defense will never dominate year after year, so it’s not about having a crazy offense that wears our own defense down. It’s also not that Lobo calls entire bad games of playcalling because he doesn’t. It’s about the 3rd/4th and shorts, the 2nd and longs, and every situation throughout the game where everyone knows what is coming (opposing DCs included). It’s the plays that worked 5 years ago that don’t anymore because other teams are studying our habits, our weaknesses, our plays. We’re being taken seriously and that’s awesome! But if we stay down this path we’ll be back where we started, trying to get teams to take us seriously again. It’s not about running crazy plays or throwing every down. It’s the few key times in every game where we need someone else to try and make the right play call. Maybe Lobo is the best we can get and would regret losing him after he was gone but at least we’d be giving ourselves a chance to better the team. Or maybe just let Tanner call each game-defining play and see if anything would be better. But I’m sure there’s an alternative to Lobo or a spread offense.

Don on 01/09/2012 (5:27 pm)

Our facilities are top-knotch compared to how they were 10 years ago.  Compared to the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, and even UNC/NCSU, they are very, very average.  (The players don’t sit in the stands or in Deacon Tower, and I believe you were talking about recruits.)

DNDC on 01/09/2012 (4:33 pm)

DC said: “we compensate for that (not recruiting 5 star athletes) by targetting athletically talented and smart kids who need to benefit from a redshirt year’s worth of development.  But when they develop, they can hang with anyone - that’s why we’ve produced more than a few NFL players.”

That is not true.  With them we can compete - barely - but it is not true we can “hang with” the 5 star teams.  Other than Aaron Curry, name me one other Wake 2 star guy in the last 10 years who was a first round NFL draftee. Most red-shirted players don’t play significantly and and they graduate in 4 years or leave early.  Guess why the last two years have been bad? Answer: Red shirted players not panning out. No guarantees, just hope.

Dick H on 01/09/2012 (4:03 pm)

With all due respect to the posters on this board that commented about the “STAR” system in recruiting…. It is meaningless.

Doug on 01/09/2012 (3:39 pm)

I projected a 6-2 bowl record this year, with losses by Virginia Tech and North Carolina. Turns out it was 2-6. HD KOD? Possibly. Typical ACC? More likely. But here’s the thing, guys: Those predictions—that’s what you should have expected. That’s what you should continue to expect. Georgia Tech should not have blown a 14-point lead. Wake Forest should not have lost when winning the turnover battle 4-0. Those two games right there flip and suddenly at the very worst the ACC is looking at a 4-4 bowl record.

That is a post from another ACC blogger.  The part that was left out was the 6 times Tanner was eating dirt because the offensive line coach is an EPIC FAIL!

Billy jo Jim Bob on 01/09/2012 (3:28 pm)

I agree that the issue is what a realistic expectation for the team would be.  I disagree that it’s reasonable to think that 4* and 5* recruits are going to start committing to Wake when we have a stadium that seats 30,000 and high academic standards and aren’t willing to sell out the academics as UNC did.  Our staff does a good job of finding the guys that sometimes get overlooked, and they play like 4* and occasionally a 5* when they get here and get coached. 

But we’re in a conference that is, while well below the SEC and probably a couple others, still populated mostly by schools that are significantly larger and devote significantly more resources to football.  Their fans are many and loud, a whole lot louder than Wake fans.  They sell more merchandise.  There are advantages in recruiting that come with size.  That’s isn’t going to change for Wake.  We will always be working harder to recruit, and we will likely always come up at the bottom of the league in the rankings - we can put together a first team that competes, but depth and certain positions (particularly on the D-line) are going to be tough for us.

Wanna get Chuck Amato or Butch Davis to come in and go splashy and get 4* and 5* guys to come here somehow?  Don’t know that it’s going to happen, but 5-6 years after each, their programs were in bad shape and joked about.

There is a lot more than 2006.  ANY school should demand to compete and have a shot at the conference title on a regular basis.  We’ve had that.  Not just in 2006, we missed the title game in 2007 by a hail mary, barely missed again in 2008, and in 2010 missed by a narrow loss to Clempson on their field this year.  While picked last in our division.

Not sure how we’re not being realistic in saying that the Deacs should have a shot at the conference title on a regular basis.  We’ve been within a game of it four times in six years and won it once, more than most of the league in that period of time.

Jabbo on 01/09/2012 (3:12 pm)

The underlying issue here is what is a reasonable expectation for the football program?  If expectations are too high, then the fans will be perpetually disappointed and the program may actually be harmed by the consequences of overreaching.  But I am more worried by the flipside to that coin, which is that overly low expectations will prevent the program from ever achieving its true potential.  And if Wake Forest can make it to a BCS bowl once, then it surely can do so again.  Is the best way to achieve that goal to stick with the same philosophy? 

I continue to be concerned by the acceptance of Wake Forest football as what Dan termed a “fair to middling” program.  At least with respect to this year, I think that the team was mediocre because it saw itself that way - and that goes for Coach Grobe all the way down to the last walk-on.  In particular, the losses to Clemson and Notre Dame showed me that we have the talent to compete with big-time programs.  I understand Wake Forest is uniquely positioned as a small and academically rigorous school, but we compensate for that by targetting athletically talented and smart kids who need to benefit from a redshirt year’s worth of development.  But when they develop, they can hang with anyone - that’s why we’ve produced more than a few NFL players.  Moreover, I think it’s fairly well-accepted that we’ve recruited more talented players over the last decade.  So I don’t want to hear about our lack of talent.

I also frustrated by the prevailing notion that Wake Forest will never be able to recruit the best high school players in the country.  I am not ignorant of how Wake Forest compares to the various SEC, Big 12, Big Ten, and even the larger ACC schools.  But there isn’t a law that all “five-star” athletes will be uninterested in a small, academically prestigious school.  That’s especially the case when that school plays in a BCS conference, has top-notch facilities, has established the capability of going to bowl games, and also produces NFL players. 

I am not advocating a “championship or bust” mentality for any of Wake Forest’s sports.  I hope that never happens.  But frankly, I think we should be aiming a little higher (and expecting to reach those heights).

DC on 01/09/2012 (12:59 pm)

Jim Grobe has the cushiest job in college football. Three straight losing seasons? 3-9? 5-7? No big deal. Remember 2006? Should we pay him more than Frank Beamer? Something comparable to Jimbo Fisher? Oh, absolutely…didn’t you hear what I said, remember 2006? He should still be collecting bonuses from that season. The football team should just change its name to the Wake Forest 06ers…so we never, ever forget.

Casey on 01/09/2012 (11:26 am)

I am amazed to read that people really think that Wake football can go head to head with the 5 star guys at Clemson and UNC with our 2-3 star guys simply by firing Lobo and hiring a new OC. They apparently think by running the “pistol” or the “spread” or whatever is the flavor of the week offensive set will guarantee Wake scoring 50 points a game easily with “imaginative” play calling.  Wow! I don’t believe that theory and like the idea of shorting the game so Wake has a chance. Talented 5 star guys will beat 2-3 star guys every time in a long game. Think people!

Dick H on 01/09/2012 (9:32 am)

I continue to be dismayed by how obtuse some of these comments are.  Lobo, the players, etc. are not the issue.  The buck always stops at the top.  And in this case more than a million of them. 
Offensive Line Coaches don’t have won-loss records; head coaches do.

Board Member on 01/08/2012 (10:24 pm)

Anyone who thinks Wake Forest is a “Major” college football program needs to rethink being a fan of Wake Forest. Wake Forest is in a “Major” Conference, but if you are in the bottom 1/4 for all-time wins as a school, such as we are, you are NOT a “major” college program. Wake won in 2006 because of a great defense but also because of the UNPREDICTABILITY of the offense. We had Kenny Moore at RB who was a threat to run, catch OR throw. We ran the Orbit and tried to switch things up. Whatever that was as a coaching job was great - we adapted our plan to fit the personnel and the situation and didn’t try to dictate things we COULD NOT dictate with the talent we had. Whatever that was then, it is certainly not what we are doing now. There is no unpredictability, no invention, no chance. Football coaches can become insulated in their environment. They are alpha males who are taught to believe in themselves no matter what anyone else is saying. This is dual-edged sword. Grobe is no longer being resolute and loyal, but stubborn and hard-headed. Bottom-line - this team is no more exciting and no better than the best Jim Caldwell coached football Wake squad - is that what we want/need? The difference is the perfect storm and the fact that he has done his job in such a way that it’s hard for you to not like the guy. Doesn’t mean that he’s doing a GOOD job. Grobe needs to distance himself from Lobo professionally and start fresh. If he has the best interests of the program and does not allow his personal feelings and life dictate his choices this is the obvious outcome.

Thomas on 01/08/2012 (7:18 pm)

Reread JoeyD’s comments.  Like it or not, that is our situation at WF.  Picture us with a quick stike offense like Leach employed at TT.  It would be fun for about 2 qtrs., and then, because our defense would be on the field so much, the avalanche would happen and we would get buried.  I’m not too happy with the play calling, but I’m much more upset about the OL play.  With good OL play, we can play ball control, we can run better, Tanner has more time to throw, etc.

Jim on 01/08/2012 (9:38 am)

Grobe proves everyday that he buys into the LOWF syndrome, that we’re just lil’ ole Wake Forest and we can’t go toe to toe with the big boys. It’s a loser’s mentality but that seems to fit Grobe as he keeps a loser like Lobo on the staff. I guess we’re stuck with “Grobo” running our offense, but it takes much of the enjoyment out of watching Wake football. This “hope to keep it close and steal it in the end” is a philosophy for losers. Grobe was fortunate to have the defenses and special teams he had in ‘06-‘08 because he has built his reputation from that. Look at it another way, Grobo has six losing seasons in the last nine, and the blame for that is on the offensive side of the ball. If he wants to coach powder puff football that’s OK with me, but that’s not what he earns 3 million a year to do. He earns that much to put a winning product on the field, and he hasn’t done it for six of the last nine seasons.

You all can grovel at Grobo’s feet all you want, but I won’t be a part of that kind of thinking. I cannot believe that a seemingly intelligent man like Grobe cannot see that this offensive philosophy is hurting the program.

Andy on 01/07/2012 (11:56 pm)

For all of you that don’t seem to understand the 3 quarters philosophy. It is the way lesser teams beat greater teams.

Wake Forest, for all that we are, will never match Florida St., Miami, Virginia Tech, Clemson or for that matter North Carolina talent for talent.

If you open your system up, foot on the gas pedal and try to beat them, you’re going to lose more often than not.

The more plays there are, the more mistakes are likely to be made and the more potential there is for big plays. The team with the best talent is subject to make fewer mistakes and more big plays.

The way for us to win is to move the ball 5-6yds a play, convert a lot of 3rd and short, lead the nation in 10+ play drives, 30-35min of possession time, win the turnover battle and a really good kicking game.

Lobo knows that, Grobe knows than and as much as I don’t like it, I know it too.

JoeyD on 01/07/2012 (10:13 pm)

I can’t believe what Grobe said about staying close for three quarters and see what happens! What kind of a motivation is this for a major football team?  Is this why Wake loses so many close games? Why not pay Grobe 3/4 th’s of hid $2.3 million salary if that’s his goal. Stop making excuses for why you can’t compete. Grobe keeps taking the money with no excuses but not the hear in the kitchen. It’s a sad situation for the players,fans and alumni.The winning enthusiasm just isn’t there and will only get worse without change. Complacency is a terrible thing.

sam on 01/07/2012 (8:28 pm)

Coach Grobe’s loyalty (and like a son to him relationship) is admirable, but to fire two coaches that had nothing to do with our shortcomings as a team will mean no changes in outcomes of games in the future! Grobe can keep Lobo, but PLEASE reassign him away from the OC role and the offensive line. The two weakest links over the last 4 or 5 years has been terrible play calling and ineffective O-line play. Hence, we were the best ACC running team, and now we are one of the worst, so that does put more pressure on Tanner. Grobe’s philosophy to stay close for 3 quarters,and then see what happens in the 4th qtr. was acceptable in the early 2000s when he just arrived, but we have WON an ACC Championship and upgraded the stadium (the best 30,000 stadium in America!), recruited many more 4 star players, and yet Grobe still expects the “little Deacons” to just compete and if we win-then that is wonderful! If we lose, then it is because we are “little old WF”, and expect to lose?!! That mindset needs to change if Grobe expects consistent winning teams because as Dan C. pointed out- WF has lost MORE close games then they have won over Grobe’s 11 seasons, so this philosophy is clearly not working! That is why they cannot finish games especially over the last 5 or 6 years -i.e-(Riley’s senior year- we lost every close game and finished 5-7)

Bobby on 01/07/2012 (1:35 pm)

I had no problem with the offense until recently, the last 3 or 4 years.  In 2008 and 2009, Wake had a terrible offense line.  Yet it took the coaching staff half a season to realize that we needed to open up the offense and throw more, use Riley, use the best group of WRs the school had in years.  Why did that realization and willingness to change take so long?

Last year and this year, why have we continued to run the option?  Price is not an option QB.  He posses no threat to run and does a terrible job executing it.  And what happened to some of the innovative runs Wake used so successfully during Grobe’s first 5 or 6 years?  The misdirection plays.  Maybe we don’t have the offensive line for that, but I haven’t even seen us try those plays in games.

I’m fine with a conservative game plan.  That’s Grobe’s style and I’ll live with that.  What I am having a harder and harder time accepting is a stubbornness to change play calling to best fit the personnel.  When it happens, it takes too long.  It’s like the coaches get fixated on a set of plays and don’t adjust quickly enough.

If Grobe is behind that, then that’s too bad.  I don’t want Grobe to go anywhere.  But I’d like to find out if Lobo is the one behind it by replacing him.

Mike Gorman on 01/07/2012 (11:48 am)

I just can’t get my head around this strategy of hanging around for 3 quarters and putting yourself in a position for a win.  I deduce from that statement a feeling that either we aren’t capable of playing four quarters or that we are going to assume that we can’t win many games in the fourth quarter.  I’m not trying to get into Grobe’s brain and understand exactly what his goal is for our team every year, but when is it appropriate for us as fans, alumni, supporters, to expect a little more?  We have talent, we are obviously a better program than the 80’s or 90’s, better facilities, and a taste of what it is like to go to bowl games.  Why can’t this be translated into a stronger desire to say, play a full four quarters and play strong until the final minute?  Are our players that immature or inexperienced that they cannot finish games anymore?  What ever happened to that famous quote made famous in the 2006 year…WF…We Finish.  We didn’t finish games before that year, and we have been having trouble finishing since.  It’s just frustrating and confusing to see the continuation of what looks like an attitude that we can’t really compete, so we will fake it.  And regarding Lobo, you know the two major complaints that most of us have is the play of the offensive line (read: little pass protection and few holes for RB’s to run through) and horrible play calling at times.  Both of these areas are Lobo’s responsibility.  And based on what I read and understand of our head coach, he must then be ok with the play of our offensive line and our play calling.  So what then to we make of that?

Dano on 01/07/2012 (11:45 am)

You’re right again Dan.  The only reason Lobo is still the OC is because Coach Grobe likes and believes in what he’s doing.  Obviously he didn’t feel the same way about coaches Billings and Henry.  Also, Lobo is like a son to Jim Grobe so that plays into it as well.  As long as Coach Grobe is the head coach of Wake Forest Lobo isn’t going anywhere unless he lands a head coaching job.  Hopefully Coach Galloway might be given more of a decision making role in game day strategy next season because I think he could bring a few fresh ideas to the offense. 

That being said I could understand his “hanging around for three quarters” strategy if we had marginal players on offense but, at the skill positions that is no longer the case and hasn’t been the case in several years.  The only offensive unit that does have marginal players is the O-Line, which just happens to be the unit Lobo coaches in conjunction with his play calling responsibilities.  We saw the revealed again in last week’s bowl game when a senior o-line got overrun by Mississippi State’s front seven. 

When you have talented skill position players you have to optimize their talents.  We never seem to do that; or when we do try to do that we take our foot off the gas pedal once we’re beating an opponent and actually let them hang around.

The perfect example of this (and I’ve mentioned this before) was the Maryland game in ’09.  We scored 35 points in the first half and were running the Terps out of the BB&T Stadium.  Riley was having the game of his life and the offense was clicking like it never had before.  But instead of stepping on the turtles’ neck we let them back in the game and even though we won the game the offense was never the same for the rest of that season.  Apparently we didn’t learn anything from that game because we did the same thing this season against Notre Dame and Duke.

To use a tired cliché, the offense is what it is, and as long as Lobo is calling the plays that’s not going to change.

GO DEACS!

Deac Fan on 01/07/2012 (9:14 am)

Damn, Disco Dan, well said.

If Grobe’s for Lobo, then I’m for Lobo. And as long as they don’t tell me how to cook the fries, I won’t tell them how to coach the football.

brad p on 01/07/2012 (1:55 am)