Comments

Dan,

I totally understand wanting to give a guy some time to get the program moving, but let’s put all the cards on the table.

Dino, based in the record, was a fairly sucessful coach, with a few minor hiccups at bad times when his star players were clearly running the show…(which to be perfecly honest is very difficult to curtail when you have the attitudes on the floor that Wake had…me, me, me, NBA, NBA, NBA). 

The FACTS!
Dino went 61-31 (.663) between 2007-2010, with two NCAA appearances, and a FIRST season of 17-13, and T-2 in the ACC in his second year!

Bzzy went 36-58 (.382) between 2007-2010 with two last place conference finishes at 3-13 and 1-15 and 0 NCAA or NIT appearances.

Another fact: Ron Wellman was the head baseball coach from 1982-1986, during Bzzy’s tenure as an assistant basketball coach from 1980-1986.  Does anyone honestly believe these two didn’t know each other pretty well?

Now…with the facts in hand, and Ron Wellman’s Press conference quote “it’s a decision completely based on performace”, does anyone else see the huge con that was pulled right in front of our eyes?  I want to put all of the emotion aside from the standpoint of how lousy our past two seasons have been and focus on the underlying issue here.  Colorado couldn’t stand Bzzy and he was being run out of town, and hadn’t he left, would have most certainly been fired.  Hence…Ron Wellman to the rescue.  There is no doubt that Ron and Dino likely didn’t see eye-to-eye, but Ron threw the program under the bus to give a friend a job.  Three seaons into tunure, what other AD in the country would fire a guy at 61-31 in a STRONG basketball conference???
I think any idiot can see that “performance” by the numbers, had nothing to do with the fire/hire senario.  Bzzy has never really had a “successful” tenure as a head coach, except for his two years at Air Force, which appear to be great seasons by the numbers.  I don’t really know enough about their league to say if this was actual success or just a decent team in a bad league at the time.  Other than that, he has stunk it up every where he has coached, NBA record of 60-104 (.365), 25-41 (0.44) at UMBC, and now 19-36 (.345) at Wake.  WHY, WHY, WHY would any AD want to hire this guy to lead their team…BASED ON THE NUMBERS?...but what if he was a good buddy needing a job?

We are supposed to learn from history, but clearly Ron Wellman put no value on that.  We can only expect his trend to continue at Wake, with last years 1-15 conference record and this year more than likely on pace to win only 3 conference games this year, sealing our place in the cellar again.

So…now when people critcize Ron Wellman, don’t think its only because the basketball team is doing so bismally poorly.  I have four reasons for criticizing Ron 1)As an AD, you are supposed to fire/hire coaches for the benefit of the program, which based on facts, doesn’t appear to be the case 2) If he looked at the facts and the numbers and arrived at the conclusion that Bzzy was the right hire, then he obviously isn’t qualified to do this job 3)He hired a friend with an admittedly poor record and fired a foe with an admittedly pretty good record, under the guise of “performace based decisions” 4)For whatever it has been worth for him to make these changes, he has really halted any momentum Wake Forest had to become a long lasting stronghold in the ACC, because if you continue losing this badly for long enough, what little bit of recruiting draw we have now will be completely washed away. 

I will admit to being partially bias, as I knew Dino quite well, but that is the main reason I am not attacking Bzzy and his coaching.  While I think he is a terrible coach, based in FACT and OBSERVATION, I don’t think he is the main problem Wake has at the moment.  The real problem is the puppeteer making the decisions.  I think Bzzy should be fired at the end of this seaons, which Ron may do to try and save his own hide, but I hope everyone remembers he was the guy who started this whole mess.  Blame Bzzy for doing a poor job on the floor, but remember, Ron was the guy who put him in charge.

WakeUP on 02/08/2012 (1:03 pm)

Dan,

I understand your argument. The comparison is not between coaches, it’s between athletic directors. It’s still a very bad comparison.

In all 3 cases you mentioned (Duke, UNC and UCLA), if I’m not mistaken, a very successful coach left the program. In all 3 cases, the athletic director hired a young coach who was probably in over his head. But each of those 3 young coaches had pedigree, Coach K through Knight at Indiana, Coach Smith through McGuire?? at Kansas, if not experience.

Those athletic directors ultimately decided that it was in the best interest of their programs to bring in young leaders and build for the long term. Dino Gaudio is actually the better example of that thought process.

The only part of the Wake Forest scenario that fits your example is our coach is losing a lot of basketball games badly to teams he shouldn’t.

The hire was not young and inexperienced with pedigree. You hire a 22 yr old Wake grad to a job based on his potential (his pedigree as a Wake grad). In that case, you have to realize going in that there will be bumps in the road as the young student grows into his shoes and develops his own work style.

You hire a 55 yr old man based on his experience and his record. You don’t expect or want growing pains. You expect a smooth transition and a level of continuity. That’s what makes the Bzdelik hire so baffling and the result so inexcusable. And it’s why the reaction is the way it is.

I can’t speak for others on this board, only for myself, but I can say I’d be much less vocal with a young coach and a long term plan.

A better comparison than Kryzewski’s at Duke would be Matt Doherty at N.Carolina and how quickly he was removed when he lost the support of his fans and a clear disconnect with the players.

Bzdelik has no connect with the fans. His record is attrocius. Neither his pedigree, nor his record of accomplishment is as good as Doherty’s (Smith, Williams, NIT finals in one season at Notre Dame). He was amiss with his players, having 3 of 8 leave after his first season.

JoeyD on 01/30/2012 (11:53 am)

JoeyD,
That’s a point well-taken. I was there in 1982, but that said, you don’t have to take my word for the fact that the league was much stronger then than now. It clearly was.
Back to my original point, though, I can’t believe that made the pressure any less on Tom Butters to get rid of Mike Kzyzewski as so many in the Duke fan base were demanding he do. K is one of countless coaches who needed time to succeed. Dean was burned in effigy. John Wooden coached at UCLA for 15 seasons before he won his first national title, and then he won nine more over the next 11 years. And no, I’m not comparing Jeff Bzdelik to Dean Smith or John Wooden either. I’m making the point that some things that time, and that if Jeff Bzdelik isn’t given the same consideration as K or Dean then we’ll never know if he would have worked out or not.

Dan Collins on 01/27/2012 (6:02 pm)

Dan,

In January of 1983 I was 10. I remember loving to play basketball and loving to watch ACC basketball. I don’t remember a lot details. I do remember UVa and UNC being ranked in the Top 5 all year led by Jordan and Sampson and NC State’s senior dominant lineup made a big run to the national title once Whittenburg came back from his broken foot.

Adult me says a young coach, even one as talented as Mike Kryzewski, was going to have his hands full against that level of competition and against seasoned head coaches like Dean Smith and Terry Holland and Lefty Driesell.

I dare say it’s precisely because of that level of competition that Mike Kryzewski became Mike Kryzewski.

JoeyD on 01/27/2012 (5:15 pm)

JoeyD,
You’re right. It wasn’t one bad loss for K as he was trying to get the program back up and running. In his second season Duke also lost at home to Appalachian State, got thumped at Princeton by 17, lost at home to Davidson, got routed at Louisville by 38, scored only 36 points in a four-point home loss to Maryland, lost at Stetson (yes Stetson)and lost by nine to a Georgia Tech team that finished 10-16. His third season, Duke lost at Colorado by nine, lost at Virginia by 21, lost at home to UNC by 24 and was run out of the ACC Tournament with the infamous 109-66 first-round loss to Virginia. Rest assured, after each and every one of those debacles the Duke fans were raising a ruckus that, if amplified by the internet, would be louder than anything we’re hearing today at Wake.
One more time: I’m don’t know if Bzdelik will get it done at Wake, and I know it. You’re convinced he won’t, and you think you know that as well. The same could be said for those whose letters are still in Mike Krzyzewski’s drawer.

Dan Collins on 01/27/2012 (11:16 am)

Dan,

We’re not seeing some of that Scotch-Irish ancestry you’ve referenced from time to time, are we?  I understand the frustration.  Don’t let it get to you! 

As you illustrate in your example of Coach K’s early struggles at Duke, the phenomenon of rushing to judgment on a coach is quite well established.  It’s even memorialized in the great movie, Hoosiers. 

However, as has been pointed out dozens of times on this blog and others, the internet has certainly served as an accelerant to some of the vitriol that occurs when a portion of a fan base grow impatient. 

To take that point a little further, I think that fantasy sports have also played a significant role in the way people assess teams and personnel.  Even in the most complicated of leagues, fantasy owners are encouraged to constantly make adjustments and changes, and the results of those tweaks are immediately known.  The consequent environment completely overlooks the organic aspects of building a team or a program.  Culture and chemistry have no role in fantasy sports.  And I think that perspective makes it even easier for the “armchair AD’s” of the world to pull the trigger on a change.

DC on 01/27/2012 (10:46 am)

Dan,

It’s not 1 bad loss for a .500 coach in his 3rd season. That is understandable bad nights happen to every one once in a while. Even Coach K.

Our situation is 10 bad losses in 50 games. Or framed in a different fashion 10 bad losses in 30 nonleague games.

No coach in the ACC has any excuse for stringing together losses to Stetson, VCU, Richmond (2), UNC-W, Presbyterian, Dayton, by 30 to Arizona St and Wofford along with near losses to Hampton, High Point, Yale and winless UNC-G over the course of a season and a half. Sadly, I’m sure I missed a couple of cars in the trainwreck.

JoeyD on 01/27/2012 (10:20 am)

Rob, If you go back and read the first blog I ever posted on MTOW, you’ll see how offensive I find the term “homer” to be. You have no basis for that charge. I said not all coaches succeed,and referenced Lowe, Staak and Wade to make the point. I said I don’t know if Bzdelik will succeed. You say you’re convinced he will not. I’m saying that’s the same position of those who wrote the cards and letters in K’s drawer. You say 1.5 years is enough to judge a coach. I will say for the last time that the loss to Wagner came in K’s third season with Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas and David Henderson on the court. I’m going, from this day forward, to institute the Rob Rule on the Macadamia Gallery. You have to read the original post, and comprehend it, to have any comment validated. Otherwise we’re just wasting everybody’s attention and time.

Dan Collins on 01/27/2012 (12:11 am)

Dan—sorry, should not have said “idiotic,” of course that’s wrong and I apologize.  I was just very frustrated reading your posts.  They’re biased.  They have the sound of a homer.

Staak, Wade and Lowe also had a host of letters in their drawers, I’m sure. The letters they received are more relevant to Buzzy.

Buzzy was 36-58 at a Big 12 school before coming to Wake.  The pundits were puzzled by the hiring b/c it made no sense.  And they were right—Buzzy has had enough time.

Wake is coming off a decade or so of regular Top 20 teams, alums that could fill the starting lineup for the east and west in the NBA all-star game, etc.  Now Buzzy and Welly have trashed the program. 

One question—can you deny that the main reason that Welly hired Buzzy was b/c they were friends?  Buzzy lost almost twice as many games as he won at CU, coached across the country at a C hoops program and came in his 60’s.  Wake could have done much better, but Welly looked no farther than his buddy.

Now Welly can’t fire his friend Buzzy.  That would take Welly’s admission that he made a colossal mistake, and also lost his objectivity.  That would also take Welly having to apologize to Buzzy for moving him across the country, and firing from what will probably be Buzzy’s last job after this debacle.

Just like Welly was too close to Buzzy, you’re too close to both of them.  Read the writing on the wall.  It’s been 1.5 seasons and that’s enough time to gauge a coach.  It looks like Buzzy was unable to become something he never was in the first place, a winner.

rob on 01/26/2012 (11:32 pm)

Rob,
As considerate, hospitable and gracious as I try to be to those who comment on MTOW, you’re making it as hard to adhere to those principles as I can remember. You continue to put words in my mouth and again, what’s the use to put words in someone’s mouth if you don’t use them against him? And you throw around terms like idiotic, being up someone’s butt and drinking the kool-aid. I have to wonder how that’s necessary.
Who ever compared Jeff Bzdelik to Mike Krzyzewski? I took great pains not to compare K to any college coach because it wouldn’t be fair. The comparison was between Bzdelik’s situation halfway through his second season at Wake and that of K halfway through his third at Duke, after he had just lost to 2-7 Wagner with Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas and David Henderson on the floor. The point is not that hard to understand. I don’t know if Bzdelik will get things turned around at Wake and I admit it. You’re absolutely dead certain Bzdelik won’t get things turned around at Wake, as were those whose cards and letters are still in Mike Krzyzewski’s drawer.
Furthermore, my job is not to support Wake or to enable anybody. That’s for fans. My job is cover the team.

Dan Collins on 01/26/2012 (10:35 pm)

Dan-under your logic any bad coach can be compared to coach K. Buzzy has never been a consistent winner anywhere and at his age we would have known if he was good by now.  Welly and he knew each other from way back when and that’s the only reason he got the job. Their cronyism is the only thing that can explain why a top 5 program in the acc hired a 60+ year old coach from the big 12. There is nothing about coach k way back when and buzzy that is in common.  Wake was a good job when Dino got canned. Welly and buzzy have trashed the program after odom and skip and yes welly (long ago) built it up. You have some influence at wake and if you’re a true supporter you would pressure wake to move onto another coach. I read your blogs and for the most part you’re enabling this mediocrity.

Rob on 01/26/2012 (9:05 pm)

Rob, what I would consider worse than idiotic is putting words in someone’s mouth and then using them against him.
From the article:
“There are also those among you who wonder how dare I compare Bzdelik to the best coach in college basketball. Well I’m not. I’m comparing his current situation to that of Krzyzewski, back when he was 32-34 at Duke and 105-93 overall, back before he became the giant we know today.’‘
You might be taken a little more seriously if you actually read the article before you hurl personal insults.
And let me ask you a question. How much time do you give a coach who loses to 2-7 Wagner at home in his third season with Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas and David Henderson on the court? For Tom Butters, the answer was enough. And because of his strength and conviction against fans such as you, Duke ended up with the best coach in college basketball. Again, if you had read the piece, you would recognize that’s the point. Apparently that’s too much to ask.

Dan Collins on 01/26/2012 (12:08 pm)

Dan—how much time does an ACC coach who loses to Wofford and Presbyterian get?

You’re drinking way too much buzzy Kool-Aid.

rob on 01/26/2012 (9:29 am)

Idiotic article—get your head out of Wellman’s butt.  We lost to Wofford—say that to yourself a couple of times—then tell me we can stand one more day with Buzzy.

Rob on 01/26/2012 (9:27 am)

Dan , “Stay Strong” my friend..Don’t let negativity get you down. I for one look forward to opening My Take every day.

Doug on 01/25/2012 (12:29 pm)

DirktheDeac, I hope your observation about me being fixated with the message boards is not correct. I do read them. As the WF beat guy, I should. But to let the opinions of some on there skew my own thinking would be dangerous. Regardless, I get opinions from all across the spectrum in the comments section of this blog and I will admit that some of what I write is in response to those readers. That way I can develop and sustain a dialogue, as I’m doing at this particular time with you.

Dan Collins on 01/25/2012 (11:43 am)

For all those calling for Bzdelik to be gone and Randolph Childress to be the new coach…

has Randolph Childress ever coached a game of basketball in his life at any level? Does he even want to be a coach?

No doubt he has a passion for the university a passion for the game and should be able to recruit well and motivate, but can he actually coach? Seems to me that Sydney Lowe had all those intangibles at NC State, yet his coaching performance was less than spectacular. Often times super talented players have a hard time coaching because others lack the natural abilities that made those players so great. It causes those coaches to have difficulty relating.

While I, for one, am certainly ready to see Bzdelik go, today, tomorrow, end of the season, doesn’t matter to me, I’m not sure Randolph Childress is at the top of my wish list. I think he’s where he needs to be to best benefit the program.

JoeyD on 01/25/2012 (11:40 am)

I think you can break down the schedule into games that are winnables, games that are reaches, and games that are 50/50.  Here is how I see the season thus far:
winnables: 6-1 (Wofford!)
reaches: 1-3 (VT was a reach when they played)
50/50s: 4-4

Of the games left, FSU, UNC, UVa, NCSU,and Duke are reaches and Clemson (twice), GT (twice), Miami, and BC are 50/50s.  I think all ACC games are either reaches or 50/50s for this team.  Thus, I hope for at least a 14-16 (5-11) record - does not sound great, but Rome was not built in a day!  At best, this team could end up 17-13 (8-8) and in the NCAAs - unlikely, but not impossible. 

Bzdelik will be judged on the 2013-2014 team.  If you want another comparison, look at the Packers.  I am a Packer fan.  in 2009, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal reader comment section was filled with poeple who thought Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, and Aaron Rodgers were the worst thing that had ever happened to Green Bay - all should be fired/released.  Favre was the savior - how could they ever let him go?  Bzdelik may not be Mike McCarthy, but he needs a chance.  He is here to clean house and restore integrity and character to a program that was losing both (I still can not watch the Atlanta Hawks back court).  If I had money, I would give it to Wake football, because of the article in the Wall Street Journal this fall about the real #1 vs #2.  I want to feel that way about Wake basketball.

Tony on 01/25/2012 (11:39 am)

Agree totally with pensive.  Coach K is 64.  I don’t see him retiring anytime soon.  Bzdelick, if successful, could be here for 10 years or so.  There is plenty to criticize, but the age factor should not be one of them.

Jim on 01/25/2012 (11:17 am)

I have noticed a lot of comments related to Bzdelik’s age and the fact that he may not have time to build a legacy at WFU or it (age)  may factor into his not having the drive to succeed. Miami hired Jim Larranaga (age62)to be its coach and age didn’t appear to be a factor in his past success at George Mason. With the talent Wake currently has they appear to be playing to their potential on most nights. On defense they appear to be in the right places most of the time. Moreso than major college football, basketball teams have to have individual talent on offense and let’s be honest it may be coming but Wake doesn’t have it now. As far as the disparaging comments on the AD remember he is the one who brought Prosser and Grobe to WFU and has been recognized by his peers to be an outstanding AD. Not many of us have the information he has at hand when selecting coaches. He is the best AD WFU has had thought I admit there have been only two in memory (Wellman and Hooks). I think time once again will tell the tale on the hiring of Bzdelik. But 1 and 1/2 seasons is definitely not enough time to form an opinion yet.

pensive1 on 01/25/2012 (10:52 am)